• pipi1234@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    2 days ago

    One reason I can think is we haven’t yet seen a working socialist society, which often fail for external reasons.

    For example, the socialist government in Cuba was severely undermined by the USA imposed blockade.

    A more recent example is Venezuela, while you can think what you want about its current government, I don’t think USA should interfere with any sovereign nation.

    There’s almost like a pattern, like someone, somewhere doesn’t like the idea of socialism to succeed.

    • shane@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 days ago

      China needs Taiwan to fail because the Chinese Communist Party maintains that democracy is incompatible with the Chinese culture. Having a very successful Chinese democracy shows that Chinese culture is compatible with democracy.

      In a similar way, capitalists do everything they can to scuttle socialist countries, because a working socialist country would show that it was viable. Hence endless embargoes, wars, and a steady stream of propaganda. This was true for the entire life of the Soviet Union, and continues to this day for socialist countries.

    • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      2 days ago

      There are plenty of surviving socialist states, and Cuba and Venezuela and Vietnam for that matter still exist despite extensive US meddling so it’s weird to call them non-surviving.

      Whether you want to call China socialist is a whole different kettle of worms, but I think it demonstrates rather handily that socialism’s second greatest burden beyond the necessity of fighting off capitalists is the authoritarianism of Marxists.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 day ago

          Sure, and they do plenty of capitalist hellscape shit in general and I’ll shitpost about that all day. They’ve also raised nearly a billion people out of poverty since 1978 and one of the original conceits of Marxism is that capitalism might be necessarily to build the industrial foundation for socialism to be viable in the first place so… We’ll see what happens as they come closer and closer to undeniably a society that could enact true socialism if it wanted to.

          We do know their state has absolutely no qualms about disappearing billionaires as is. Or, you know, millions of Muslims.

          • Doomsider@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            21 hours ago

            This is a great perspective and it always helps me with gloom and doom. There are billions of people infinitely better off than twenty years ago in regards to access to food, electricity, and clean water.

            You don’t need to wonder what will happen as China has already embraced fascism. Once wealthy individuals and their corporations gather enough power China will be no different than the rest of the world. I would love for them to prove me wrong.

            Capitalism always results in the same outcome and China is no different. Such is life.

      • pipi1234@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        2 days ago

        I agree, that’s why I called them non-working socialist states.

        My point is we haven’t yet seen how well (or bad) could a socialist state work if left alone.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          2 days ago

          Marxism posits that socialism is best achieved through a command/centralized economy. There’s plenty of room for interpretation and of course being a Marxist doesn’t mean you have to agree with 150 year old socioeconomic theories on every point but generally that’s the form Marxist governments have assumed, probably because it is in the interest of the people running a government to take all the power they can.

          If the government controls production from the ground up there’s just no other model to call it but authoritarian, everything within that society can only happen by their consent or by breaking the law.