• CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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    3 months ago

    A large amount of angry, angry disillusioned people. I’m culturally close enough to understand a bit, if not 100% of it. There’s been a lot of cultural change really fast in the West, and increasingly bad economic conditions for the poor, rural and/or uneducated at the same time. As a result, a bubble of people who are completely reactionary and want to tear down the establishment has formed. Trump just managed to mobilize them.

    The part I don’t really get is the appeal of the guy himself. It’s like they want to inflict him on the people they’re angry at, as if he’s a weapon and not a leader who will be in charge of them.

    • kersploosh@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      It’s like they want to inflict him on the people they’re angry at, as if he’s a weapon

      This completely nails it. Trump’s lack of a filter and eagerness to pick fights makes him look like a fearless champion for his followers. He isn’t going to pull punches or compromise with anyone.

      A very conservative relative of mine likened supporting Trump to hiring a sleazy but effective lawyer: his personality and methods are irrelevant; you hired him to achieve specific results and the only thing that matters is his ability to achieve those results. If it makes the opposition scream then that’s just added entertainment.

      • HiddenLychee@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        What I don’t get is he had four years already to achieve results and all he did was make the country worse off, but somehow everyone seems to have forgotten that 😭

        • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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          3 months ago

          Yes, but he hurt the right people. Or at least put on a show of doing it, somehow Mexico got out of USMCA just fine.

    • MataVatnik@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Yeah, lot of bitterness from perceived left wing elitism that they feel derided them and marginalized them, Trump is not a political platform, it’s just resentment.

      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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        3 months ago

        As fascism always is.

        They could have picked someone who’s not transparently a crayon-eating moron, though…

        • hydroptic@sopuli.xyz
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          3 months ago

          Considering that both Mussolini and Hitler were also incompetent fucking morons, it’s no surprise that modern fascists also pick leaders like them.

          They’re sending their best.

          • radix@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Trump represents modern conservatism, but he himself? I’m not sure he actually stands for a whole lot beyond his own orange bubble.

            He’s mostly a blank slate (philosophically and intellectually) that the people around him can use to get their agendas enacted. He surrounds himself with sycophants and bootlickers, so as long as they promise him wealth and power, he is content to parrot the talking points he’s given.

            Steven Miller, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, and all the others…those are the real evil motherfuckers. When Trump is out of the picture, they’ll find some other half-wit to puppet. The fight won’t end when one figurehead fades in to history.

            idk, just one dude’s thoughts.

            (Just to be clear, none of that absolves him of the real damage he’s done. Malicious indifference is still malicious.)

  • Azal@pawb.social
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    3 months ago

    Hooooooooooooooooooboy. Mainly, he got lucky in time. WARNING, WALL OF TEXT

    This is a continuation of the build up to the original civil war in America, when post reconstruction under a President who was sympathetic to the confederates after Lincoln was assassinated. You’ve had generations still calling for civil war (spend 30 minutes around a group of Texans and see if you can get out without hearing them declaring Texas never signed to become part of the union again). With the “war of northern aggression” myths that are pervasive you’ve got people believing that it was DC that invaded the south instead of the south attacking first, as well as “states rights” making it seem like big government is picking on the states.

    Into the racism territory, the original civil war was about slavery. Full stop. If you have questions, please refer to declarations of causes of secession from Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas (which its formation was specifically stealing it from Mexico to become a slaveholding state), Virginia, then look at the Constitution of the CSA Article I, Sec. 9(4), Article IV, Sec 2(1)(3), Sec 3(3). States rights indeed.

    This may seem odd to dredge up all of that but living in the South this has been the drum I grew up around my entire life and spoken of as gospel. Am a descendant of a Confederate officer and people tell my family that we should be proud… I’m proud of my parents for responding that he’s a traitorous piece of shit and deserved to be hung. This offends the locals in modern era. Now with jobs that had me traveling, you find the Virginia battle standard (that’s not the Confederate flag, the actual Confederate flag is mostly white, then they changed it to the “blood dipped banner” with a red strip at the end because the actual flag looked too much like a flag of surrender… ironically changed the month they surrendered. Whoops) all over the country in small communities. It’s weird to see “It’s heritage, not hate” in Ohio. So the ghosts of the Civil War are not yet gone.

    But lets get out of the Civil War and move to more modern wounds the country still has festering. The Civil Rights act when taught in schools is almost treated like it was ancient history… my dad’s high school cancelled prom because the principal would not have the first integrated prom in the state, people are still alive from that era and anyone thinks hatred was overblown, Eisenhower had to send the 101st Airborne and federalize the Arkansas National Guard to protect 9 students because the Governor mobilized the National Guard to bar their way into the school. Following Ike, you had JFK a Democrat who ran with LBJ, the running mate was chosen because LBJ was your old school southern Democrat, wildly racist, which spoke the language of the very angry South. JFK was pushing integration, but as VP, LBJ actually seemed to spearhead it harder than JFK, and when he became President after JFKs assassination made it a point to continue integration full steam ahead (not a saint, his words to people still racist… he was a complicated figure in history). He signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and 1968, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and changed politics in the country for the foreseeable future, the Southern “Dixiecrats” felt betrayed by the Democratic party. This was added on by the Southern Strategy pushed by Nixon and his political strategist Kevin Philips.

    The words of Phillips himself in 1970, warning: language of the era

    From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don’t need any more than that… but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That’s where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.

    During the Nixon era, the War on Drugs started up. Former Nixon Domestic Policy Chief John Ehrlichman told outright the war on drugs was made because you couldn’t arrest people for being against the war or black, so tie weed with hippies and blacks with heroin and now they had a ready made excuse to disrupt communities, arrest leaders, raid homes, and vilify them on the news. Another one of those talking points of the Republicans you hear about today was a Nixon favorite “the Silent Majority”. We all know about the Watergate Scandal, and if you don’t good lord a writeup of it would take up more than I’ve written now, but an overreach of Nixons power and lead to his impeachment trials. So Nixon is a shamed president, we don’t need to look at him anymore… Except many of his policies are quietly still used by the Republicans, which shouldn’t be a surprise, one of President Trump’s political consultants, Roger Stone, has a tattoo of Nixon on his back.

    Against the war… RIGHT, another boogeyman of the US: Communism. Understand Fascism, Socialism (often attributed to Communism, since we’re talking US politics, the words are interchangeable even though in reality they are not), and Anarchy were political theories that butted heads about the same time. During WWII it was even in the US “we gotta stop the communists” and of course the Cold War made it worse. Containment, the US doctrine to prevent the spread of Communism started roughly with Truman, as put in by Nixon on the trying to go against hippies, the attitude continued and still Communism is a bad word today. Good lord that discussion is its own article, but good to remember that we have situations like McArthyism, a second Hooverism where persecution against left wing individuals under the guise of “weeding out communists” has happened and getting called for now where people were encouraged to turn in people suspected of communist sympathies, happened a lot in Hollywood, so a distrust of the conservative crowd of the liberals and such like the “Hollywood Elite” is ingrained in our society for nearly a century.

    THE MODERN REPUBLICAN PARTY, good lord we finally got here. It can really be chalked up to their patron saint Ronald Reagan. Old Ronald pushed a lot of the economics that are still worshiped by the right wing today, as well as much of the political control. He was an odd duck, not a politician, but an actor who got a cult of personality going and a massive following that felt he could do no wrong. Wonder who that sounds like? No idea. Again, another point where I could go a long time how his administration shaped the country but there’s a really important one that explains how we got here. The 11th commandment

    Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican.

    Look at the Republicans for decades after that. They softballed each other while holding Democrats to a higher standard. Republican does something distatetful the Republicans would protect, but a Democrat do something and hang them out to dry. This became the main doctrine of the Republicans, lockstep together and do not faulter. Clinton sleeps with someone, Impeachment trial, W starts wars with countries not involved in 9/11 nada, Obama and Biden impeachment inquiries for… reasons? The republicans started their “win at all costs” move, a lot spearheaded by Mitch McConnell (yet another… good lord long article)

    This is going to seem like an aside, but is important, during this, 9/11 happened and the real advent of 24/7 news cycles showed up. This will be important because this beast lives on advertising, it’s a for profit business, and so keeping butts in chairs and eyes glued to the screen is very important.

    So in comes the turd in the punchbowl, Donald Trump. He doesn’t believe in rules. He is more intimate with guys in drag than the truth. He’s ran as a democrat to get president, failed miserably. Ran as republican, failed miserably. But the perfect storm happened. A black guy is in the White House! 24/7 news is blasting anything they can. Trump has been able to stay in media and keep crowds entertained, honestly his true talent is working crowds. So he finds that “birther” conspiracy and ran with it, all the major news networks were happy to parade Trump on and give him free publicity, Fox because he’s helping spread hate against the Democrats, CNN and MSNBC happy to show him off because “haha, look at the dumb conspiracy nut” and gave him ALL of the press. Then the primaries came after Obama, and a pile of Republicans, all following the 11th commandment are together, being nice, cordial, while jockying for who’s in charge. And Trump ignored the rules, tore each and every one of them apart, so the divisions of a pile of candidates who softballed and he threw elbows landed him the nomination.

    I want this understood, this is still VERY MUCH an ELI5, truncated and painted with the broadest brush explanation of what’s going on. I could go into fuckups of the Democrats, that Bill was the beginning of the end of the actual left wing to corporatism or the running of Hillary being a dumb move, but you asked about what did Trump tap into. The TLDR is “We’re still dealing with shit that came up before Lincoln was elected.”

    • JayleneSlide@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Holy hell! This was the most succinct, concise, and “yeah, your high school history textbooks whitewashed all this shit” summary of the modern Conservative political machine. It’s like Robert Evans, Matt Taibbi, Jake Hanrahan, and Kurt Andersen had a love child that came out as a summary text.

      If anyone got to my comment here, but only skimmed parent comment, please do yourself a favor and bask in that bit.

      • Azal@pawb.social
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        3 months ago

        Damn, that’s high praise, thank you! It makes me feel better because I woke up fighting myself on “Oh man I wrote way too long a rant” and “DAMMIT! I didn’t even mention the Evangelicals worming their way into politics!”

        To everyone else, reading this… read about history folks! I, like everyone else, thought history was boring in school. If I were to put on my tin foil hat, I worry it’s done on purpose as it helps realize nothing happening is actually all that new. And it’s rather easy to do, put a coach as the history teacher who just hands you a textbook and makes you regurgitate names and numbers that don’t mean anything but meets criteria (No Child Left Behind, Bush Era for me) just makes everyone hate history.

        Yes, I did drop names, policies, and a few dates, but those are examples to point to and you better believe I don’t remember a single one of those by heart, I have to look them up when I reference them. The theory is there, and once you get into devouring the actual meat of history it is absolutely bloody fascinating.

  • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    As long as you only get the opinions of people who don’t support Trump, you’ll never understand this.

    • Donkter@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      How do you mean?

      I get that you’re implying that people who don’t support Trump can’t know what goes on in a Trump supporters head or understand the movement (not true).

      But if you can’t explain it yourself then you simply can’t know what you’re talking about, you don’t even understand what it is that they’ll never understand! How would you be able to know if they are able to understand or not!?

      • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        No, people who don’t support Trump are perfectly capable of understanding Trump supporters’ reasons.

        It’s just that they don’t, and don’t try to either.

  • halfwaythere@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Racism. Christian extremism. Both not exclusive to themselves. Both have felt ignored and feed on the the thoughts of being victims due to their “unpopular” beliefs. There is much more to this subject but this is the best I can simplify it.

  • dragontamer@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago
    1. Anti-federalism – Deep rooted distrust of the Federal Government has been around since the dawn of the USA, though its often been part of the minority.

    2. Know Nothing / Native American Party – 1850s era movement. Protectionist, isolationist, nativist. Originally they popped up as anti-Irish and anti-Catholic, but overall the concept is that immigrants suck. The modern concept is: “I know nothing”, about the movement. The overall idea is that even in the 1800s, it was bad to look like a racist bigot, so you’d keep your support for these causes secret. Everyone in the party knows that “the Know Nothings are larger than everyone expects”, but no one really knows how big the movement is. And that’s the point.

    3. America First – 1930s saw the rise of Fascism vs Communism in Europe with the dawn of the Spanish civil war. The “America First” movement focused on isolationism and even pro-German / Nazi slant mixed with religious fervor. This was pushed by tech-gurus of the time: Charles Lindberg (airplane entrepreneur, first Trans-atlantic flight, etc. etc.), and the Christian Front. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Nazi_rally_at_Madison_Square_Garden).

    4. NAFTA – 1990s free-trade by Bill Clinton opened up Mexico and Canada as incredible trading partners. However, local industry / local steel lost out as companies started to shop in Mexico for material. As Bill Clinton was a huge pusher of NAFTA, the anti-NAFTA political group consolidated under Republicans. This is likely where the bulk of blue-collar workers is coming from, especially because Trump started adding Tariffs / anti-globalism concepts back to the forefront of American Politics.


    Some more recent context:

    1. Trump has been building his brand for decades as a very rich, very macho straight-talker. Even in the 80s and earlier, there’s a large number of Hotels, Casinos, Resorts, Golf Courses (etc. etc.) that have relatively high reputation among Americans in general with Trump’s name.

    2. Trump reads from the teleprompter in “another voice”, openly showing his disdain for public speaking and the political system. Anyone who has lost faith in the political system loves this. Trump pretends that the teleprompter is forcing him to talk and its all just a “through the motions” thing. Then Trump obviously goes off teleprompter and talks about different concepts, the “real stuff”. (Or so goes his branding). This simple trick is enough to get the gist to his followers: don’t listen to what I say (because I’m being forced to say this politically correct crap). This means that Trump’s true actions are only limited to the imagination of the listener.

    3. Trump is playing and leaning into the borne again Christian role. From a religious perspective, the “former enemy / former outsider” coming into religion is a common story and religious love it. Trump was openly a Democrat in the 90s / 00s before switching into Republicanism.


    The “bulk” of Trump’s political style is Know Nothing + Macho + anti-political correctness.