when the shitty government started the brutal invasion to Ukraine

What should a state do when the most prolific invader in the world starts amassing troops and weapons on its border, especially after conducting a coup against a neighbouring state?

Well, NATO self-admittedly pushed for the war, so that’s whom you should be directing your ire against.

I envy you if you have seriously never seen liberals say that both NATO and welfare are good.

Unable to dedicate enough time to dissect particular examples, but, for example, places like lemmy.world are full of liberals who will tell you that NATO should keep going and maintain colonial subjugation of the Global South, but to provide its own people with better welfare.

I will be able to provide more examples later if that’s not enough.

You hear a lot of NATO liberals saying that the plunder from Africa, Asia, and elsewhere should go to welfare. This even happens on these sites.

You have to be living under a rock to not hear liberals day exactly that.

What would make you hate a force for decolonization and workers’ rights?

What “horrific crimes” did the soviets commit?

Guaranteed housing. It genocided the landlords.

It’s you who are deciding what’s happening now in the USA is evil and what happened in the Czech Republic was good.

Firstly, the only way that you can claim that what was going on in Czechoslovakia was worse than what is going on now, is it you think that people in Czechoslovakia were treated worse than the people that NATO holds under colonial subjugation, invades, and genocides.
Secondly, let’s be honest, people in Czechoslovakia had some of the highest living standards on the planet. If you disagree, do please explain how much worse their lives were than, for example, those of the people forced to live in bantustans.

Not being allowed to plunder Africa and Asia is not suffering.

It’s funny how you admitted that you were not comparing the situation with any sort of actual cases, but a hypothetical case of what the Ukrainian SSR could have done. All while falling to mention that Ukraine’s agricultural output decreased between 1980 and 1990.

Also, why did you opt to lie about 1/3rd of the Ukrainian population dying in the 1930s, and also presenting that case as a famine that happened during your adulthood?
It’s pretty clear that you can’t actually explain why you think that the USSR was somehow worse in this regard than most of the capitalist world (where people die by starvation en mass even today).

Yeah, I read your claims. And, again, a lot of families’ experiences differ from yours, and it is incredibly silly to claim that that was somehow worse than what came before/after, or worse than what the vast majority of the world was experiencing.

You are most likely saying that you do not accept any living standards as ‘good enough’ unless the state engaged in plundering of the global South.

Oh here it is! That’s blatantly anticommunist of you.

How so?
Are you one of those weirdos that think that reluctantly answering the call of the government of Afghanistan to intervene against your invasion somehow itself counts as an invasion?

But otherwise you are claiming that these masses were/are to stupid to make their own decisions?

The issue isn’t “stupidity”. The issue is malice - those people (you included) understand that they would benefit from plundering Africa, Asia and elsewhere, and opt to support the empire that promises them that plunder. Then, they proceed to pretend that the lack of plundering is oppression of them.
I would argue that not giving specifically such people political power is good. Imagine that - the results (including the expected ones) do matter.

Ok, so you can trust “the masses” only if they support their government or policies you like.

I for sure wouldn’t trust people that, for example, supported the German government in 1933-1945 (actually, the vast majority of German governments), or the people who support the states that invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and which are engaging in the genocide in Palestine.

Currently don’t have time to address the entire reply (will do that later), but I do want to address one claim that you made:

I don’t think deporting citizens like that is one of the things you can truthfully say the Biden admin did.

Biden’s term, and each of Obama’s terms saw greater numbers of deportations that Trump’s first term.

At the very least, articles like these that provide such statistics are easily searchable:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/22/us/trump-biden-immigrants-deportations.html

So, it is rather silly that you keep insisting that Trump is somehow different/worse in this regard.

So, you weren’t the one who said this?

Different doesn’t mean Biden was good, just that he was so much better than the alternative. … Deport citizens arrested by ICE to third-world countries with no trial and refuse to bring them back?

Even for the examples I gave where you can say yes, technically the Biden admin did this too

Again, if your prior list, where you say that Buden (and Obama) didn’t use ICE and didn’t bomb other countries (technically, you were only concerned with ships for some reason) and the like, was not what you meant, you are free to actually mention things that you think are substantial differences between Trump and the preceding genocidaires in chief.

You mean the thing that NATO admitted to?

Compared to this broad choice of vinegar on the shelves.

So, you can’t actually say what you are comparing the USSR to? (It is overwhelmingly likely that you are comparing the USSR to colonial metropoles, and ignore most of the world.)

Quality wise? Fuck no, obviously. But there is at least food one could steal if not buy.

And yet, people in the USSR weren’t struggling with food as much as most of the capitalist world. Hell, there is a famine in Madagascar.)

Yes capitalist economy is terrible, but for some there is a framework of comparison. One you chose to ignore/deny.

What is that “other framework”? Pillaging Africa, Asia, and elsewhere outside of Europe?

Generally my point is exactly that living experience of a soviet satellite state was not much different from that of a capitalist colony. There’s no food? To bad. Workers rebel?

Okay. What famines are you referring to that happened during your adulthood in the USSR?

You drive a tank over them.

Like when?

It’s just that this was mirrored under another banner

Okay, what people did the USSR engaged in colonialism against, and which ones did it subject to genocide?

Also, I am going to point out again that no, neither what came before, nor what came after was/has been better.

Pretending as if people in the USSR had very little compared to the rest of the world is incredibly silly.

Sorry, I’m not interested in conversing with someone who can’t read what I’ve already said.

What you said was that ICE wasn’t a thing under Biden and Obama.

…or someone who doesn’t have any idea what’s happening outside.

When you were listing differences between Trump and the preceeding blue fascists, the things that you listed were also features under said blue administrations.

The fact is that the only thing that is significantly different in this case is decorum, the lack of which you abhor more than literal genocides.

I just don’t understand how you can be informed about politics and not understand the enormous gulf between the two primary options.

Being informed about politics leads one to understand that there is no such gulf.

Like, you literally thought that ICE appeared less than two years ago, that Biden didn’t take part in any invasions, that Biden didn’t openly abuse power to shield his family from the laws he himself pushed through decades ago, and so on.

the difference in scale is staggering.

It’s not. The difference is just decorum and lack thereof.