Lol, they got told to fuck off for not being profitable.
While I love the sentiment; I’m reading this decision by S&P as just about not bending their rules. AI is not thriving fast/convincingly enough to break tradition of big finance; I don’t think that makes S&P an ally. And I suspect this means they’ll just be joining a bit later.
‘A bit later’ is really all the is required to meet the standard. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/21/tesla-isnt-a-gurantee-for-the-sp-500-even-with-year-of-profits.html
S&P Dow Jones has a history of making companies earn it, including previous Elmo ventures.
I’m not bullish on any of it, and I’m desperately trying to exit AI holdings as swiftly as I’m able, but I am deeply comforted by major indexes requiring companies demonstrate profitability or at least meaningful actual revenue beyond the self-dealing that we’ve seen between the IPO hopefuls.
Good. Those clowns will trash the index funds that so many depend on for retirement funding if they tank. And AI certainly will, and SpaceX is dependent on the whims of a drug addicted wingnut.
They didn’t block them, they just won’t buy it until it has been on the market for a while
For those that didn’t see the article from yesterday, the relevant rule that they refused to waive was the one that said a company must be profitable.
lol
Lololololol the president of my company went full AI shithead recently and he posted how it was a big deal that they were going public and he was talking about how he see it as a great investment to purchase shares and I asked how it was a great investment to get shares of a company severely in the red and my comment got deleted in a few minutes
Edit: we also got claude code for everyone in the company and they are monitoring token use (as in we need to use a lot) and I asked if they were concerned that the token price would rise if the board of directors of anthropic suddenly wanted to make a profit and that comment also got deleted (this was in a virtual townhall so we can ask stuff, usually they just ignore the ones they don’t want to answer but they were actually deleting them this time)
My last company they didn’t delete messages. That would be to obvious.
“I am sorry we didn’t get around to answering all the questions live. We will respond to the remaining by email”
No more questions were answered.
You know this already but your company management are morons.
is…your company publically traded itself? looking for an easy short
Sounds like they don’t want to go along with these sham corporations and their smoke & mirrors accounting. It’s like they want the companies in their index to be on sound financial footing or something.
Loooooseeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrs! Demanding fiscal accountability. HA!
The very idea!
I didn’t know that the SNP500 had such rules, but I’m so happy they didn’t cave.
I hope people sue the indexes for changing the rules. Im not sure its possible but it really makes an index meaningless if its not consistent.
Nasdaq and Russel caved though. I don’t know if there is a way to avoid them in our 401k.
You should have the ability to select the investments in your 401k.
I mean, every company I participated in just give a menu of 20 or 40 mutual funds, targeting different maturation points or Industries, and people absolutely are allowed to pick which funds they want there 401K allocated into. It’s just going to require an additional 10 minutes of searching to find out how much AI diaper load is riding in your preferred funds, and possibly having to forgo growth funds and total index funds for some number of seasons.
Personally, I just moved to roughly 40% in Int’l funds despite ASML and TSMC being featured prominently, because it is still a net reduction in exposure and because I need the diversification (~10% a S&P 500’ value is directly exposed either AI or semiconductor, and roughly 33% of S&P 500 is straight Tech of some flavor).
I actually just went hella heavy on Int’l and value stocks, in order to completely divest from Musk exposure in my retirement accounts.
Which muskless and ai-less indexes u found? I’m working on the same
VTV is value stocks, so minimal exposure. AND Vanguard Healthcare fund has often had consistent performance across Market Cycles. I haven’t yet found an anti AI portfolio.
I’m looking ex-us for my growth and blended strategies. VXUS and VEA principally.
Every 401k I and my wife have had let us set which index, but would rebalance itself every year because they believe they know better. It’s really annoying, but if you’re familiar with the markets, I would say it’s very necessary. Especially since the default funds will often have fees associated to them.
Fatwa all those godawful techbros.
The only thing I’m gonna try investing in from this AI shitshow is China’s CXMT RAM since they have a good chance of shanking both Nvidia and the RAM thug monopoly lol.
Excellent! Fuck Musk.
And while I’m not an AI hater, that is 100% the investors trying to cash out before the industry runs into trouble.
Yeah, it really is painfully obvious that the fatcats are trying to cash out on the bubble before it blows.
Has the S&P bent this rule before?
Orrrr its literally baked into the definition of what it means to be on the S&P.
I think you might have missed the original story. There was some fuckery going on with changes to the rules of what does and doesn’t get listed at IPO, seemingly designed to force the stock to (be allowed to) launch at a nonsensically high value on the indices, in turn forcing the least gamble-minded investors (which includes a fuckload of normal people via pensions, insurance schemes etc) into becoming bag holders for the most transparently greedy rug pull of all time.
I live eight thousand kilometers from the US, and have no vestigial belief in capitalism, and this made me sell my US index funds this week. What an irresponsible shitshow even if you believe in nothing besides capital, even if you are a true believer in this system.
The definition of being listed on any index isn’t waiting for someone to announce “I want each share to be worth ten trillion dollars! Actually no, eleventy billion dollars!” and taking that at face value. That’s why this is news. It’s not Mr Standard and Mr Poor sitting in an office and deciding they don’t like the stock.
Hmmm. Good for them.
Of course, I dumped the S&P 500 awhile back, to eliminate my exposure to the rest of the tech bubble (Amazon, Microsoft and friends betting hard on enshittification), anyway.
So this was both too little and too late, for me.
I’ve already withdrawn money I had invested in US.
You can’t convince me this isn’t bubble:
Here’s an even more interesting one:
It’s the P/E ratio (the ration between the stock Price of a company and it’s Earnings) of the Nasdaq vs the Price.
Notice how the Nasdaq price has tracked the P/E, with since at least 2020 the stock prices not increasing because company earnings are going up but rather just from increased speculation hence the rise in the ratio of stock Prices to Earnings.
The P/E (in other words, the company stock prices relative to the actual money a company makes) is now about twice as much as back in 2020.
Wow that’s a pretty wild statistic here. Is there historical precedent for this?
S&P 500 PE Ratio hit 120 in 2008, but thats because earnings collapsed.
Yup I moved mostly out of usd, no stocks listed in the US, no US Treasuries.
I see either default or massive inflation or both in the cards for the US very soon.
Moving your money to overseas markets isn’t going to protect it. Other countries are having similar liquidity and bond issues. When the bubble bursts it’s going to be world wide.
Also fundamentals don’t mean shit when the bubble pops. Everything will come crashing down because everyone is panicking and knows that everyone else is also panicking. It will have a domino effect and even markets that aren’t even part of the bubble will get hit.
Agreed, but they shouldn’t tank as bad and businesses with healthy profits and a history of dividends should bounce back quickly.
It’s just not worth paying capital gains to pull it out of the market.
Yea I don’t know why people think that this AI bubble is just in the USA, this is a global race, not just a US thing.
I’m still invested in some US stocks, but I’m switching my US market exposure to an index fund that weights by actual sales, revenue, and other objective factors, rather than market cap. Companies don’t even get into the index unless they turn a profit first.
Which index is that?
I’m curious as well!
pls share
“Very soon” that’s what’s been said for years now. I too think this isn’t sustainable, but it sure feels like it’ll keep rolling for a number of years.
“markets can remain irrational a lot longer than you and I can remain solvent.”
Yup I’m definitely foregoing upside but I don’t want to be stressing about trying to find the best time to exit every day.
Can still make plenty of money in non-US index funds.
Though I must say, my EM Asia ETF blew up right in my face. Somewhat softened by the fact that I figured it was going to peak and sold at 61 EUR to rebuy more at 59. It just happened to drop further after holding near 59 for a while. But at least I skipped out on two euros worth of price drop AND bought more shares than I originally had.
One of the two things I have left in US-run ETF companies is, ironically, my lovely WisdomTree NASDAQ 100 3x daily short which went up a ton on Friday though. I’m predicting it’ll go up even more when SpaceX is admitted into the index lol
The main issue as usual is US hegemony (or what’s left of it) has a way of fucking up the rest of the world. When that bubble pops it’s going to cause a whole bunch of industries trouble.
Hence why there is frantic effort in decoupling from USA and connecting with alternative markets in the rest of the world.
Yeah fucking finally too!
Every fucking american crisis bleeds into our countries every goddamn time, but they? Let’s do worse next time!! No regulation!! War!!
Aaaahrg.
/Rant off
Yup. Highest it’s ever been and there’s no explanation as to why. Not a sensible one anyway, given most are in the shit.
Is it because for every american their only choice to get any retirement or any interest on savings is to put it into stocks? Followed by massive speculation that maybe (I dont know this part) is driven by machine code that not only follows trends but creates them by thinking if everyone is investing and line goes up, maybe this is where the money should go, which reaffirms the algorithm. Until it doesn’t.
Surely these two things are a factor. That and companies continually laying people off, or cutting costs, or selling data which give the illusion of making money when really it’s just juggling the books and has no long term future.
It’s because they keep printing more and more dollars and issuing debt, those extra printed dollars have to go somewhere and they buy more stocks with it.
https://en.macromicro.me/charts/28906/SPX500-Index-vs-Dollar-Index
People/mainstream media just assume stock market goes up means the companies are more valuable – for the past year or so it really just means the dollar has been going down aka inflation
Sure there is. It’s a pyramid scheme. It’ll work until it doesn’t. The people involved are just really good at moving assets around to give the illusion that line keep going up. To keep it growing they move assets from other safer markets (pensions to 401ks for example) and have lobbied to not be taxed or regulated so more and more capital gets dumped in. But stocks aren’t tied to anything more tangible then trust of the people holding the stocks. So long as the stock holders believe stocks are valuable they are. But like any good pyramid scheme eventually they will run out of suckers to bleed for cash and then BAM pyramid fall down.
It is even more extreme if you view the entire index history. The Covid peak looks almost benign in comparison and that was quite substantial but with a rather slow in rise and fall. Now, since the LLM bubble has been started, NASDAQ has almost doubled and in recent months almost feverishly. Nah, no bubble, nothing to see here, all based on reality. Please invest, we need to unload the bad money onto someone else.
I’ve pulled most of my money out of stocks stuck it in bonds. I have a few dividend ETFs like SCHD and some oil and energy sector stocks that I bought on the cheap before Trump fucked the oil markets.
It’s a giant bubble but there are sectors you can sit in defensively.
IMO the Space X and AI offerings are going to hoover up any liquidity left in a market that is showing less and less breath. Energy shortages will kill by July/August.
Tf happened in Spring 26?
US Tariffs on everything, feels like a lifetime ago already doesn’t it?
Wasn’t that 25? And again bad for economics.
Yep, me being dumb! I thought you were talking about the dip before.
We launched attacks on Iran to distract from the Epstein files, leading to the closure of the strait of Hormuz and dwindling oil reserves around the world. It was only like 3 months ago, I’m surprised you didn’t hear about this
Of course I heard. Last I checked war and oil shortages weren’t good for the economy
What you’re looking at returns on US stocks in Indian Rupees. So the sharp rise is US stocks going high + Indian Rupee deprecating against USD so earlier investments providing higher returns.
Motilal Oswal is a fund house:
https://www.motilaloswalmf.com/mutual-funds/motilal-oswal-nasdaq-100-fund-of-fund
It is a bubble, but ……
- a bubble is a great place to make huge gains …… as long as you get out in time
- usually a few companies survive the bubble pop. Their stock price baby also crashes but then recovers to “normal” valuation
I sit out bubbles because I recognize them but know I never know how to get out in time. But I do know some who succeed in riding the wave while still coming out the other side
I went 30% into international funds after the first recovery from Donald’s tariffs in spring 2025, when it became abundantly clear that our former trading partners were all hammering out new trade agreements. (Which take 1.5 - 2 years to take effect, but eventually they will and it’ll affect the US adversely.)
Been meaning to rebalance into money markets and bonds with how crazy this year’s been. This just makes me want to do that faster.
Asset allocation funds might still include it. Your Vanguards and BlackRocks.
The very broad funds definitely will - VTI/VTSAX - but at lower weights and under less time pressure than the rigid index funds (VOO/VFIAX). That takes off a lot of the liquidity squeeze and (presumably) reduces their loss.
But you have to remember that people who use these funds intentionally invest in obvious losers and willingly overpay for hyped stocks because they believe, in the long run, that buying obvious losers is more than balanced by also buying the unexpected winners.
SpaceX is just the first time an oligarch tried so obviously to rig the passive investor structure to his favor, and I’m glad the S&P people didn’t cave.
This is good to hear.
The popular Vanguard ETFs will definitely have it, they do track CRSP and FTSE Russell (VT and VTI for example) - Both of which adopted fast track rules that will allow SpaceX to become eligible 5 days after the IPO. Unless Vanguard themselves decide not to include it in their portfolios (seems unlikely but you never know). I think Vanguard does have some funds specific to tracking S&P but that’s not usually what people use Vanguard for.
e.g.
https://moneywise.com/news/top-stories/elon-musk-spacex-ipo-crsp-vti-ftse-russell-nasdaq-401k
That could lead to some interesting outcomes, how these funds look in 12 months could indeed be tied to which specific index(s) they are tracking.
I’m not the most financially savvy person, but I’m wondering if they’ll pass based on fiduciary duty rules. It would be pretty tough to prove violation for something like this, but the question is whether or not they even want to open themselves up to the possibility. I guess it depends on how close they think the bubble is to bursting and if they think they can justify the risk with potential earnings
You mean Vanguard and Blackrock ETF?
Might? Also, when other Ai companies are already counted in the S&P or would be redundant.
Oh thank god
Good.
Fuck Musk.
But let’s be real they’ll just wait the standard length for entry. No big deal for them. If he needs more funds I’m sure he can ask the US government again.
nice :)
