By all rights, this should be something I am deeply passionate about. I’ve been in tech/engineering my entire adult life and was obsessed with NASA as a kid. I even live on the east coast of Florida and can sometimes see the launches/landings over the ocean. But I just… don’t care at all. I’m not suffering from depression or any other malaise, and generally things are fine. But I haven’t clicked on a single link or looked at a single image. I know this has not been the case for many, many people, so I’m wondering what might be different about this launch (or really the whole program in general), and curious if anyone else has found themselves feeling the same.
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I’m on the other side, wondering where everyone is
We’re bogged down in so much misery, so much self-destructive behavior, so many exploiters and scams, so many people in desperate circumstances …. But Artemis (and similar) is meeting a challenge, doing the impossible, setting a vision of a greater humanity, shifting civilization forward. It’s a reason to live, to hope, to be optimistic, and probably benefits even the most desperate by shifting society forward.
It’s been overshadowed by other current events. Quite a shame, really
It’s more than that. The thought of us doing something incredible like establishing a permanent moon base feels more depressing than inspiring these days because enshitification will be baked into it right from the planning stages
I have become very cynical of tech over the past several years and am strongly opposed to any sort of space colonization.
Me to. Theres a podcast called “tech won’t save us” that i hate listening to because it reminds me how much we have lost.
I get your sentiment but that’s exactly why we need space colonization.
There is a thing called translatio imperii which means that empires aren’t created nor destroyed, they just move from one location to the next, always on the frontline of humanity.
If we don’t get spaceflight, the US will stay an imperial entity for eternity. Only if space colonization succeeds, mars can become the next empire which means that the US stops being one, interestingly.
Fuck that. Saying empires are inevitable is a lot like saying fascism is inevitable. Maybe it’s true but you shouldn’t identify with the thing and make it’s purpose your own
That’s complete and utter bullshit.
“Frontline of humanity” what does that even mean, historically? Humanity has always been spread across the earth.
I see absolutely no evidence for this historically, what I see is just people in the Middle Ages trying to brand themselves as the successors to Rome for PR.
The idea of Mars becoming an “empire” is pure fantasy. We can’t even begin to talk about the lack of natural resources when there’s literally no air. Maybe in 40,000 years or something, but not on any foreseeable timescale.
If we don’t get spaceflight, the US will stay an imperial entity for eternity.
This is straight up magical thinking. You might as well say that someone has to sacrifice a virgin goat on the night that the stars are in alignment for the US empire to end. There is zero logical or causal connection between those things, and empires don’t just last “eternally” unless somebody casts the right magic spell.
Maybe in 40,000 years or something, but not on any foreseeable timescale.
Similarly, the NYT predicted in 1903 that it would take “one million to ten million years for humanity to develop an operating flying machine” (airplane). The wright brothers achieved the first powered airplane flight sixty-nine days later. Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Machines_Which_Do_Not_Fly
You might want to think about this.
A technological breakthrough could make Mars colonization feasible. It might even be possible for it to be self-sustaining. Who knows?
But an empire? That’s utterly ridiculous. You might as well say that the thing that the American empire will last eternally unless and until we genetically engineer a race of intelligent dragons who will replace it with a dragon empire, and if anyone expresses skepticism of that fantasy, you could just as easily point to “people didn’t think the Wright Brothers could fly.”
One wrong skeptic a hundred years ago doesn’t mean every fantasy is going to happen. There’s countless predictions that didn’t come true.
But an empire? That’s utterly ridiculous.
What’s your argument here? Why is it ridiculous?
Thats actually a perfect explanation that I think is inline with this
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/YfhA3KWLtFqBeFnpb/my-specific-singularity-timeline-to-utopia
Class warfare will be the foundation it’s all built on. Any tech developed for the moon, Mars, whatever - anything we gain in knowledge in return - is going to go to benefit rich fuckers, not you. One day there will be more space tourists. Rich people, not you. Maybe one day Man will even colonize another world. Rich people, not you.
Maybe they will take us along as servants? Oh, no, they will build robots for that…
In case we’re not familiar with the cultural/economic backdrop of Bladerunner, etc.:
spoiler
all humans that could afford to leave the planet had done so long before the period the first movie was set in, and those humans that couldn’t quietly, secretly turned into unpaid, unwitting sublime training nodes for each new model of replicant —until said trainees failed to recall their synthetic origins, and could replace the humans without any blowback, scrutiny, or awareness of it at all, really. 😶
This is not scifi. This is where those fucknuts are aiming our species. 🥲
Plus, space travel mainly benefits the super rich.
Ay?
Do you mean only the super rich will be able to travel?
The only travel anyone will be doing in the next 100 years or more will be going to the moon to squeeze into a tiny smelly hab module to figure out how to avoid getting regolith in your ass crack.
I think space travel will be the exclusive reserve of hard core science nuts.
Even in say 500 years. Will there be a “colony” on Mars with anything more than a dozen science nerds? I doubt it.
If the Untied States manages to survive the mess it is in, it will probably declare ownership of the moon and declare anyone else who manages to land there illegal aliens…including actual aliens
Epstein files ?
That goddamn scandal. The persecution of minorities and the warmongering. The socio-political climate now is far worse compared to the Apollo missions then conducted at the time the US government was unpopular mainly because of the Vietnam War.
The arguments against Artemis aren’t surprising as these also mirror the skepticism towards the Apollo program.
I’m finding it hard to be happy about any of the positives coming from the US government these days. A couple of bright spots don’t really outshine the depressing everything else.
The “positives” don’t usually translate to any sort of benefit for the average person. Yes, I am aware that there are exceptions to this.
Spaceflight creates jobs.
In red states. In some of the worst red states
Jobs that keep supporting and propping up the system we live in.
oddly enough i had a discussion with somebody just today that AI is bad because it reduces jobs. now you’re telling me that spaceflight is bad because it creates jobs?
It’s almost as if you’re speaking with different people with different views.
I for example would have told you that AI reducing jobs is amazing and ideally all jobs should be automated, so that everyone can choose to do exactly what they like at all times.
It also wasnt even really a bright spot because it was being actively used as a propaganda story for Trump.
It’s hard to be excited about going to space when you can’t afford to exist on earth.
I should be way more excited, but the current administration has ruined everything. NASA is too focused on creating a moon base which is dumb as shit. Let’s try and save earth before jumping ship to another planet.
NASA is too focused on creating a moon base which is dumb as shit.
Why dumb?
Even if you want a Mars base eventually, it seems like a good idea to get some practice building a similar moon base first. Many of the problems will be the same, but it will be much easier, cheaper, and safer to learn them in a place which is only days away from resupply.
Yeah I’d argue time is actually the most expensive thing for a mars mission. And that’s going to require a hell of a lot of mission time nobody knows how to do yet. We get a head start on it now, getting a working lifter series in production and a functioning commercial lander and habitation scene and you’ll have a much better mars mission. I think the view of mars or bust asap asap comes from a lack of understanding of how big the technical leap is from doing a moon to doing a mars mission.
On the other hand Artemis’ 2 year lag between missions is just about right for optimal windows to mars. /s
Advancements in space can advance humanity on Earth. Like practical solar panels were first created for a satellite. There are experiments that need to be done in low G or zero G like for material science, a permanent moon base could accelerate those advancements. Also experiments on bio printing living cells have been done on the ISS, zero G makes it easier to scaffold the cells into a structure. Maybe a moon base makes it easier to grow organs on an industrial scale.
same, i think thats why its not interesting, the WHITE house has created so many distractions that the nasa isnt even that noticable, just a temporarly headlines that would be instantly forgotten in a few days.
I feel oddly similar. I think it’s that I can’t cheer for America.
We should have gone to mars by now, but all the funds went to child raping fascists and bombs apparently
i dont think we are technologically there to get to the mars even with money, probably a few more decades of funding and research.
Yep. But that’s the thing, we could’ve been there if we didn’t spend the resources necessary for it on stupid things the last ~5 decades.
that is true, largely everyone forgot about space exploration, and focused on WAR economy instead.
We can with enough money. We already established we can build stuff in orbit and send stuff to orbit. All you need to get to mars is a larger rocket. So assemble it in space and go to mars. It’s the same problem of going to the moon just with more delta v.
It’s a lot more than that, starting with transit time - take a few week lunar mission and scale it up to years
- after such a long trip out in microgravity, will astronauts even be functional when they get there? ISS astronauts in space that long have a hard time standing, walking, etc, and now they need to assemble their habitat for the next couple years?
- by the time they get back they will have been in space longer than ISS limits
- while nasa has very detailed planning, anything that messes up and an “emergency” supply or rescue takes nine months or more?
- so much more fuel needed to deal with trying to get there fast then Mars’s gravity well
- imagine any medical emergency
- there is no short mission where they can try something then head back after a few days. The shortest mission is over 2 years
for me, it’s the fact that it’s being used as a political tool by the usa to broadcast their prowess, that it’s being presented as a hopeful look in the future all the while the country running this is bombing and murdering hundreds of thousands, and that the companies benefitting from artemis’s publicity are mostly “defense” contractors like spacex and lockheed-martin, aka again the same people doing all the genocide
it’s hard to feel excited about it even tho there is plenty of cool science being done, that cool science stands on a mountain of tragedy and horrors
Could the same thing be said about the Apollo program in the 60’s?
Factually, sure, but emotionally, not even close.
I love space and discovery. I also dont super care about this because what is even the point of it? We did a fly around of a rock in our backyard we know super well already. Give me more JWST, not this
Yeah, but the point is to test the technology which will eventually get people back onto the moon, set up permanent off-Earth habitation, etc. Which in turn will/could be part of future steps for further-reaching exploration. I still think it has value as a building block.
But we already had the technology to get to the moon, take pictures, and get off it. Nothing against the crew, im glad they got this once in a life experience, but theres nothing new to this.
They’re testing entirely new everything. Just because it’s the same shape as Apollo doesn’t mean there’s anything in common
Are you not excited by the high resolution pictures sent while they were still out there ? Apollo would have brought back film to be developed on earth?
120Mb laser data link!!!
We had it, yes, but we lost it - I believe that many of the technical plans from Apollo have been lost over the years, so some of this is pretty much reinventing the wheel to get us back to where we were before.
Not so much lost but, its an entirely new tech stack. So any solutions we might have had in the past are no longer appropriate solutions.
What part of reinventing the wheel is slashing NASA’s budget to shreds? This is just the last public test flight before space is walled off as a playground for the rich. They’ll get their tourist flights and luxury colonies and nice vacations from the boiling toxic hell they turned earth into.
If you think any resources are going to trickle down to us earth peasants, I’ve got a moon base to sell you.
Thats a weird take.
Literally everything that just went to the moon and back is “new”.
Yes, we have been to the moon before but that doesn’t mean that all the cool stuff we just did is not an amazing achievement.
what is even the point of it?
No one’s been on this spacecraft design while it’s in space before, and it’s got some kinks that need to be worked out (like the issues with the toilet); it’s a shakedown flight to figure out what goes wrong when people are actually on board. That’s not really all that sexy compared to a moon landing, but testing your support systems in practice really needs to happen before you do more ambitious things with the craft.
Yeah I’ve been thinking maybe this is it – it’s still technically impressive and I have nothing but admiration for the teams who have pored their sweat and tears into making sure it’s safe and reliable, but it’s kind of a ‘so what?’ moment.
Telescopes and geology have always been the cool part of space, not that humans are in it.
If they landed and did stuff that was more complex than we can send robots to do it would have been pretty awesome!
This flyby is a necessary precursor to landing and doing those cool things.
They need to take tiny incremental steps because the cost of a fuckup is so great.
If the public has to watch someone expire in space due to a malfunction the existing candle flame of support for these endeavours would be snuffed out.
With only two seconds of ping they can work from Earth with robots. Sending people is just a dick contest.
Yep, I am definitely more excited by space science news. I’d say I’m just more mature now and interested in more grounded “pure” science, but it wasn’t too long ago that I was giggling like an idiot as we watched the 2 falcon heavy boosters landing back on their dual pads at KSC, so I don’t think it’s entirely just a loss of child-like wonder (though it’s wearing thin these days, gotta admit).
It’s impressive in the sense that it’s the second time they launched a mostly clean sheet heavy-lift rocket. It took spaceX dozens of exploding rockets before they could even think about putting humans on one. Just getting something that insanely complex working the first time is kind of incredible, and I say this as an engineer who works on much simpler things that almost never work perfectly the first time.
for me its not only the glacier pace of progress… its also the lack of scientific motivation.
this didnt happen for science… its a political tool
The Apollo program was also a political tool, but it was astounding (not that I know first-hand, just hearing what my folks have said, and even they were fairly young at the time). Artemis doesn’t have the same caché, I guess.
fair… i grew up with the shuttle… we were constantly reminded about the science
even that sucked due to the politics… as i would later find out the shuttle was stupidly inefficient but profitable for some
And don’t forget that a big part of the shuttle sucking was caused by the military who forced nasa to make major design changes so that the shuttle could fulfill military tasks. Tasks which the shuttle never even wound up being used for because the military simply created their own separate rockets to do those tasks.
There are scientific targets and experiments being run
https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/artemis-ii-science/
100% there is a big political component to the effort, but there are also data that we can’t get without getting farther from Earth
I don’t care about it because it’s a NASA mission and I’ve noticed that anything American these days makes me nauseous.
Call me anything you like, I don’t care, this is how o feel after years of america bullshit and decades of more murrica bullshit with their preprogrammed exceptionalism.
I look down upon them, I pity them at best
And then there is something as great as this and I just can help but feel like it’s tainted somehow. I know it’s an international collaboration, but still, the smell somehow remains
I’m sorry, but fuck, so much misery and death and suffering has been brought to the world by the US for so long already… Trump is just the next iteration taking this place to its natural conclusion. Of course trump is corrupt, the country has been through and through corrupt for decades. This is just a typical self absorbed American grabbing the chance geven to get me myself and I to the top.
So yeah, mixed feelings at best.
I feel the same apathetic “whatever” response. I love rockets. I love space. I struggle to care about this.
The program is almost 2 decades late and using recycled technology. It is literally using spare parts from the shuttle. I don’t believe it will ever actually get to the boots on the ground phase. I am actually surprised they made it to this mission. After all the boondoggle from Boeing I really thought it would die a quiet death somewhere out of sight.
Not only do they have technical hurdles, we have seen normally safe agencies become political battle grounds. We see science becoming less and less important at every level of society. We are living through Idiocracy and they still act like we are the same country that went to the moon the last time.
If we see people on the moon in our lifetime I don’t believe they will arrive on a NASA mission.
I don’t care because it doesn’t seem like a genuine mission to prove something. It feels like a purely political stunt. At least with the original mission, it was breaking a frontier on top of trying ot show off to Russia during the Cold War, but this time it’s only the US flexing as mandated by the Orangegutan in Charge because he can and it feels icky.
His name is forever going to be associated with this too. Tainted like our lives have been with his toxicity forever
My feelings exactly. This was not politics leveraged to advance science. This was science abused to advance politics.
In all honesty at this stage it’s not that exciting. They’re hyping up people going further from the earth than ever before, which is technically true, but astronauts have orbited the moon before just not quite as far in absolute distance.
So this is mostly doing something done before in the 70s. Rocket launches, grainy images of the moon from close up, photos of earth from near the moon and astronauts floating in zero G isn’t new.
I don’t blame you for not getting excited to watch long videos where not a lot happens very slowly, or reading press coverage which is brutally honest largely fluff.
The ultimate goal is exciting, but that doesn’t mean every step on the way is exciting. I suspect the first moon landing will be of more interest, then the next one will not be, even though the landings are a stepping stone to Mars.
This ^ I get it, the images we are getting back ARE stunning, but is there anything about this mission that demanded a manned spaceflight? Couldn’t we/didn’t we already do the same thing remotely with the other planets?
I’m glad we’re getting back to it, and I’m happy to see anything other “We’re sending mice up on the space shuttle… AGAIN!”
But even Artemis IV where they are planning a moon landing has been done.
Let me know when the first colony is formed, then I can get excited.
Let me know when the first colony is formed, then I can get excited.
You don’t just jump right to the final goal, there are many steps to get there. This was one of them
The many steps were planned and completed 50 years ago, we just forgot.
Let me know when the first colony is formed, then I can get excited.
It will only be open to billionaires. Or to people there to make money for billionaires. That’s why I’m not excited.
Compulsory moon colony for billionaires would be great thanks.
is there anything about this mission that demanded a manned spaceflight?
You don’t just send astronauts into space for a photo op. You pair the photo op with critical testing of systems required to support the next iterations of the mission.
For me, I just don’t see it as the step towards a bright future that it cone was.
So we reinvigorate the world’s interest in space missions, then what? Every iota of evidence from our own planet tells us that businesses are going to own the moon, mars, and beyond. Wayland-Yutani is more likely than The Federation.
I just can’t get excited about another frontier for Musk and Bezos to rub their stanky dicks all over.
I was far more excited to see the solar panels in Syria.
We can’t even wipe our own asses without jihading or reinstating a cool new kind of slavery with extra steps. What are we going to do with a new frontier?
I’m betting a corporate slavery jihad of environmental degradation.
I mean, that tracks historically
The Expanse sheds one I believe to be a plausible picture of our future, although it seems optimistic on some fronts.
I disagree.
Its slightly firmer science than star trek, but it still makes a lot of license IMO.
I dont think the cost of sending humans to Mars or to do asteroid mining will ever be justified. Bots, and not humanoid ones will explore the frontier of space, and collect the minerals we need.
If you think about all the stuff humans need to survive for any length of time it just doesn’t make any sense to send a human.
This is why the moon is critical. Going to mars or wherever will be insanely expensive compared to the little moon trip. To make it at all affordable, you don’t just need one of the new reusable launch vehicles but you need to use local resources as much as possible. Let’s prove our ice mining and habitat construction
Consider spending tens of billions of dollars just sending water to mars, and hope you don’t screw up the schedule when an “emergency” resupply is nine months. Same for air. And food. So much more for fuel. No one is going to spend that. But if you can use local resources for fuel, water, air, radiation shielding, and grow at least some of your own food, you’re more resilient and much much cheaper.
The mining isn’t likely to be useful for sending anything back to earth - way too expensive. Space mining is all about making space affordable, and we’re talking about really fundamental things to mine.
I agree that moon stuff is a critical first step to doing anything in space, but my point is that I don’t think sending humans will ever be the best way to do anything.
Bots are just so cheap and effective and disposable by comparison.
How many decades more research and development before we can safely establish a permanent base on mars, and in that time how much more effective and reliable and deployable will bots become?
Eventually the calculation will be: we can afford to do a manned return trip to Mars, or we can afford to solve cold fusion by doing whatever thing with a bot, or something similarly amazing.
idk maybe you’re right, we’ll see if we both live long enough to find out…
